Transforming Businesses from Slow Growth to High Growth: A Process-Based Approach

Jenny Mueller: Fantastic. Well, yeah, I'm excited for this conversation for a lot of reasons. But you know, in the world that ASMBL is working in, you know, we're really looking at how we can add value in the form of, you know, value creation and building up. I mean, you mentioned like the companies that are stuck in a rut that maybe need to get over a hump or they're looking to pass their business on and maybe the younger generations are no longer interested in taking it and running with it. So they're passing them off to PE firms and it sounds like we'll learn some good nuggets today from you on how to tackle that.

So in the interest of the theme today, focusing on value creation through building a scalable commercial engine, can we start by providing a definition of like, how do you define a scalable commercial engine in the context of private equity portfolio companies and kind of what the key components are that distinguish that truly effective commercial strategy?

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Slade Kobran: Yeah, so first of all from a commercial standpoint, when I think of a commercial engine, I think all those things that go into finding, attracting, converting, keeping, growing customers or clients depending on how the individual firm uses that term and how they're structured. So it's gonna be different for each firm to some degree. And there's a lot of industry nuances there. But I think of all those things that are impacted and really most of them cross that sales and marketing spectrum.

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Theres probably some element in some companies of customer service, et cetera. But it's really about it, like I said, all the ways in which you find, convert, excuse me, find, attract, convert, keep and grow your customers or clients. And so that's the commercial aspects of it. When I think about, you know, scalable, the key there is really not just something that's suited for purpose today. And sometimes when we're working with clients, we find what they have may not be best suited for purpose today or not optimized. And that's an important aspect of it. But especially in these businesses that are looking to transform is going to be suitable for that transformation. It's going to lead them to that transformation and is going to be what they need to continue that growth as they get there.

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So in the context of private equity, they're all about having a better, more valuable asset during their hold period. So when they think about value creation and their transformation, it's how do we take this company and make it a more valuable asset? And so that's where we focus our efforts in building that scale, which brings accountability, repeatability, predictability, purpose, and process to how they go to market to attract, convert, retain, and grow their customers or clients.

And then the last aspect of that is even just the word engine. Again, we think of an engine of being something that is very purposeful, has a process related to it, and is something that you can really see and define and touch and feel and have confidence in.

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Jenny Mueller: Yep. And I think that that's a lot of what we're seeing on our side is those companies that are being acquired. And the first thing a PE firm does is assess those processes and see whether or not they are repeatable, whether they are scalable. And a lot of times when we're coming into a conversation with, you know, recently acquired portfolio company where they're on and maybe on-premise ERP system and they have an antiquated, you know, whether it be an e-commerce platform or just tech stack in general, the PE firms, the first thing they're going to do is bring someone in or have someone on their team assess that. And so it's great to know that there's resources out there that understand the value and importance of creating that scalable engine. So fantastic.

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Slade Kobran: Yeah, I mean, when you think about it, right, private equity, I there are forms, growth equity, capital and things along those lines. But for the most part, the reason private equity is investing is because of that gap, that opportunity to take the asset from where it is and where it's going. And that's where their gains are going to come from in being able to close that gap. So, you you have a lot of businesses, there's nothing necessarily wrong with the businesses, but they haven't built themselves for that growth purpose in the way that a private equity investor is looking for them. And again, they may have a system, although many of them don't, a great system for where they are today, but it's all about where you're trying to take the business.

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Jenny Mueller: I'm sometimes shocked to see some of these businesses that have made it to a hundred million dollars plus that have some of the messiest scenarios from like a technology standpoint that I have seen. And it's funny in talking to, you know, some of my contacts in the PE spaces that they're out looking for exactly that. They know that there's opportunity if, the backend, the back office is a bit of a mess. So, that's interesting to me.

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Slade Kobran: That's definitely where the opportunity is.

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Jenny Mueller: So in speaking of that, then when you're first engaging with a PE owned brand or a PE firm that's bringing chief outsiders to the table, what are your initial steps in like diagnosing what their needs are both in the immediate term to drive value, but also then to your point to creating that repeatable process that you mentioned?

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Slade Kobran: So I would say in almost all scenarios, whether it's private equity sponsored or not, you know, we're typically taking an assess, fix and build kind of an approach, right? You got to understand what's there and where the gaps are. And then you have to understand the context and particularly in the case of private equity. What is the value creation plan? And even more importantly, what's their investment thesis? Why is this company investing in this company as an asset? What are they looking to do with this asset and what's their reason for investing and partnering with the management team? And understanding that is really critical to then tailoring the assessment and the gap analysis and the value creation that you'll be working on to that investment thesis. you know, building... Building a company for purpose is really critical.

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So, know, if you, for example, if you're, if you're a business owner and you're looking for a nice lifestyle business, well, you're going to take actions and the platform or the engine you build to support that is going to look a certain way. If you're looking to take that business and maybe, maybe the next generation is looking to expand geographically into a new segment and kind of blow up the business, so to speak. Well, then the things that you're going to need and the way you're going to attack it is going to be very different than the first scenario. And certainly, if you're a private equity investor, and you've got your investment thesis and timeline, the actions you're going to take, and the process you're going to put in place and the platform you're going to build is going to be very different. So making sure we understand what they're trying to build and what they're trying to accomplish, and then tying back that assessment to that is really important. And then it's got to be something that's practical and actionable, and then repeatable, right? Because it's not, it's not theoretical, big consulting firm kind of hears, you know, the plan we need to put in place in a perfect world marketing or sales theory. It's here's how we need to accomplish what's going to move this business to that level in terms of people, process, capabilities, technology, et cetera. So it's very much of an operator's mindset versus a strategic consultant mindset.

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Jenny Mueller: And I'd love to dig into that a little bit more because in my experience, I've found that oftentimes these folks at the private equity level are very much financially focused and oftentimes see sales and marketing as somewhat of like, I'm trying to think of the right word because it's not like, I guess they see it as like a questionable investment.

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And I've found that it's really a matter of translating the language that you're using into something that makes sense to this audience, right? If you're talking about it from a dollars and cents standpoint and a ROI standpoint versus just an investment in like a lot of times in like a black box that like give us your money and we'll do something cool with it. Like I think there's a way to communicate the value of sales and marketing in a different way to this audience. Have you, have you experienced that in, this world?

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Slade Kobran: Well, absolutely. And I think one thing to keep in mind is, who private equity investors are. Private equity is an alternate investment class. They are investors first. Their job, they raise money from others, you know, general partners and others. Their job is to provide a return to their investors. And that's what they're doing. And they're using the companies they buy in this case as the vehicle to provide that return. But that's their job.

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And so when you're doing that, when we're talking with them about the kinds of strategies and plans that we recommend and want to put in place, you have to do it in that context. You have to understand what their timeframes are. They're not going to want to invest in something that's going to pay off well after their investment period. they're not able to realize the gain from that investment, right? So that's the thing there. They're not gonna want to invest in something that they don't understand the return and how it's gonna help make this asset more valuable for them and for their investors.

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Now, by the same token, their job and what they do know how to do very well is put money to work effectively and efficiently. So if you can make the business case for them, they're all in on putting the money into it. But you've got to do it in the context and with an understanding of who they are, their primary purpose, and how they make money for themselves and for the people who entrust their money with them.

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Jenny Mueller: Yep. And to your point, the business case piece, I feel like it's so valuable. You can't sell in sales or sell in marketing in a silo. You have to sell it as part of that overall business case. So that's something that I've had a lot of fun doing in my career is kind of understanding how to speak that language. And I joke, I have a master's degree in applied linguistics, which I don't use in any technical form, but I joke that I leverage it to translate this sales and marketing ecosystem into something that makes sense in the financial world.

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So that being said, I would love to dig in a little bit on how do you all approach talent recruitment? You have some very impressive folks on your team that you're basically taking out so that these folks can leverage talent that they wouldn't otherwise have on their teams. How do you approach that? Because I think that's a lot of what your role is today, right? Is going out and talking to PE firms and figuring out what holes they need to fill or what they need to get from point A to point B. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you've built out this robust team to help support this audience?

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Slade Kobran: My role as I work with my private equity partners is to get, you know, find the right resources for them and their portfolio companies to achieve the outcomes that they're looking to achieve in the context of everything we just talked about. So that's my role. And I do that by leveraging the 130 or so people within the chief outsiders tribe. And we call ourselves the tribe because we do follow that tribal mentality.

First of all, all of us are full-time chief outsiders, so it's not a loose collection of smart people. Obviously, I'm biased, but I do think we have the smartest, most experienced and capable people in business. That we've been able to attract to chief outsider. So I think, you know, I'm really blessed to be around such smart, talented people.

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At the same time, none of us are as smart individually or know as much individually as we all do collectively. And so that's really the culture that we've built for ourselves and why we call ourselves the tribe and being able to leverage that learning, that experience, that expertise, and that we're all in it together culturally to support each other and more importantly to provide those best outcomes for our clients. That's a big part of how we attract that talent.

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You know, let's face it, the people that are as experienced and as accomplished as chief outsiders are, could pretty much work anywhere they want. And if they want to do the kind of work that we do, they can and some have in the past, do it on their own, right? Or go somewhere else. The thing that brings them and keeps them at chief outsiders is that tribal culture, the learning environment we've put in place, the sharing environment with our strategic growth councils and our peer reviews, the ability to ask a question of a colleague and get 20 answers, the ability to learn new industries, new sectors, new techniques. That's the hardest part about keeping yourself sharp. And I think sometimes that's the hardest part about providing those best outcomes for your clients. And that's really where we focused our time at Chief Outsiders.

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So when it comes to recruiting, it's about exposing that capability to potential chief outsiders and for us to really understand and vet them as to whether we think they fit that culture, they fit those capabilities and they can be successful here. Being a great world-class sales or marketing executive is just table stakes at this point. It's everything that comes around that that we really focus on when it comes to talent for us.

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Jenny Mueller: Yeah, it's it's nice to have people that you can tap like the chief outsiders so that you don't have to rely on your internal team to stay on top of all of the ever ever changing trends and changes happening honestly almost daily within the sales and marketing realm. So very, very cool.

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All right, let's let's chat like examples of the kind of work that you all do. Can you walk me through and like you don't have to share names or anything but just can you walk through a specific example of a time when you perhaps helped transform a company's commercial approach maybe like what they looked like before they came to Chief Outsiders and then what you brought to the table to help get them to that next step or over that hump that they maybe were challenged with.

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Slade Kobran: Sure, one example was a company that sold a financial product to consumers. And, you know, they had very little name recognition. They had a very utilitarian and very useful product. But they, you know, they were not something that a consumer would go out and look for or be aware of. And they also sold through partnerships. So they were not always the direct line to the consumers. And their challenge was, as happens many times when we get engaged, had the CEO was their primary salesperson. They had some other salespeople, but the CEO did all the big accounts and brought in, know, both brought in and converted and managed all the big accounts and the other salespeople kind of brought in a couple of accounts here and there, but there was a lot of frustration on the CEO part that the sales folks could never really get up to speed to the same level. So on the sales side, that was an issue. On the marketing side, they had really no solid value proposition, there were new competitors starting to come in and start to say the same things that they said.

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And so they really were struggling with how do we tell a differentiated story. When the private equity firm, were, I think about six months into private equity, into their private equity sponsorship, they came in and they recognized that there was an imbalance in customers. There was a high concentration of risk in customers. And when they started to do some profit analysis, they realized that there was, you know, they were going for a lot of the low hanging fruit. And so there was some profitability issues and it was, they had some pricing pressure. And so, you know, those are the areas that were identified and they need somebody to come in, A, put together a repeatable sales process and help them hire, you know, staff up high and train and provide playbooks, build playbooks for their sales team. They needed somebody to help them identify the most profitable growth segments for them and then put the playbooks in place to go out and attract and retain those folks through the marketing and then put the engine in place to go out and do the things such as email and digital marketing and all those things that would provide leads to the salespeople.

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At the same time, they needed some way to not just get the attention and convert the customers through the business partners they sold through, but they needed some way to also improve awareness of consumers who would be buying through those business partners. So that was kind of in a nutshell what the challenge was, and they brought in chief outsiders. We ended up bringing them someone eventually. We started with the marketing aspects, and then we brought in someone to focus on the sales aspects. When we exited that engagement, I think it was about 18 months later, we had a sales process, we had a sales structure in place, we had built out the compensation plan, we had built the sales playbooks and significantly improved their conversion rates for the sales team.

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And so the CEO was no longer in the position to be the prime primary channel for business, but they had that repeatable engine in place. From a marketing standpoint, we helped redirect them to their most profitable and highest growth opportunities. We revised their value proposition. We put all the assets around it that the sales team could use to attract and convert those customers. And we did some significant awareness campaigns, both with consumers and with the business partners that they were targeting to start to really build that lead flow engine. So at the end of that engagement, a lot of those things were really starting to come in in full force. We also, by the way, hired a head of sales and a head of marketing for them to kind of keep it going forward after we left.

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So we accelerated their growth growth in the near term, we built them a platform for accelerating growth on an ongoing basis. And we gave the private equity firm a more valuable asset for them to monetize as they exited the investment and moved on to the next one. So, you know, that's kind of a typical type of engagement without going into anything more proprietary. It's kind of hard to provide more details, but that's the approach.

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Jenny Mueller: I just chuckle because I remember a scenario when I was reporting directly to a CEO and the majority of sales were tied up in the CEO. And I remember him finally admitting, like, I'm not scalable.

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And like, right, you're you're the bottleneck, my friend, like you have to let go of some of the control and let somebody else take this on. And so it's difficult, I think, for a lot of CEOs to do that, especially when the company that they've potentially built, if they're a founder and a CEO, and it's their baby, it can be really hard to let that go. But it is so common for that to be the sales bottleneck. So it's great to have the ability to, to bring in a proven team that knows what they're doing instead of taking risks on bringing in someone without having any of that, you know, laid out because basically you helped build the plane while they flew it and then brought in the team to help accelerate that. So I love hearing stories like that. That's awesome.

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Slade Kobran: A lot of the private equity firms that we work with are those first time outside investors. So they're dealing with founder family led CEOs. And again, now the private equity firm needs them to be the CEO. They don't need them to be the head sales guy or person, right? Right. They need them to be the CEO and focus on governance, focus maybe on additional M&A, focus on building out the team and scaling. And that's again, understanding the investment mindset that private equity brings to the table and being able to engage with that is really critical.

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Jenny Mueller: Let me ask you this because I'm noticing a trend and I'm curious if you're seeing similar trends in your world. But I feel like for the longest time, or at least when I first started getting into working in the private equity space, I was seeing more of like a slash and burn type mentality where PE firms would come in, basically got the teams and then bring in their own teams. And now I'm seeing more where PE firm's especially are being strategic about investing in the human capital side and ensuring that they're, you know, they're keeping their people there and keeping them happy and then building additional resources around them to help them better do their jobs. Are you seeing a similar trend on your side?

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Slade Kobran: I think some of it depends on the investor and their strategy and approach. Some of it depends on the part of the market that you're involved in. Again, I think in the space where we spend a lot of our time at Chief Outsiders, they're investing not just in the company, but they're also investing in the management team. They don't have the experience or expertise to run these businesses, and that's not their job. So they want to invest in management teams they can believe in and provide them additional support and additional resources like from chief outsiders and others that can bring that scalability we talked about and that process and that growth that we talked about.

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Now, let's face it, they're not gonna be shy about making changes if they feel that needs to be made. But the advantage tends to be in that value creation. It's all about how do I make this a more valuable asset and you just can't cut your way in most scenarios there are exceptions but in most scenarios you know you can't financial engineer or cut your way there you've got to build up the business and that's tends to be the investment strategy that most of the ones that least that that I work with really follow.

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Jenny Mueller: Yep. so let me ask you this when you are coming, getting brought into scenarios where the existing team or maybe the family owners are still in place. How do you balance that kind of process. I mean, I guess full transparency, I feel like I've been brought into scenarios like that where, it's almost like the, the consultants being brought in are deemed a threat to the existing team instead of a support system. How do you manage that when you're brought in to ensure that the team knows that you're there to support them, not to make them look bad or kick them out of their seats?

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Slade Kobran: Look, I mean, you got to understand human nature and it's natural for people to be aware of change and that's just the way it is. Change is hard. And we talk about our model. We talk about our support system. We're not looking to get anybody, take anybody's job. And our model is not to necessarily be that full-time forever person inside that business. And that all sounds great. And that's all important for us to do, but people buy what they see, right? Or, you know, I don't mean purchase what they see, I mean, but they buy into what they see. And that's why having the right EQ as you're working with a client, not just to engage with the CEO, but to engage throughout the organization as that resource. And, you know, you just got to build trust over time. And that's an important thing that we screen for as we look for talent and an important part of what we engage with and share best practices and train on because it's very different than being a fractional chief marketing or chief sales officer than it is being a full-time, you're the person hired for that big title job.

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So realistically, you can say whatever you want upfront and the CEO could say whatever they want, but people react to what they see and how people act with them and you know our job is to come in, build trust and affect change the right way. At the same time we have to be comfortable enough having open and honest conversations with our client and sharing where there are opportunities and gaps in the organization.

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Jenny Mueller: No doubt. Well, before we part ways today, I have to touch on, of course, the hot topic that everyone's talking about, AI. And I'd love to know if you have any opinions or how you're seeing emerging technologies like AI and advanced analytics and things like that reshaping this commercial strategy, especially as it pertains to mid-market companies. Do you have any thoughts and input on that?

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Slade Kobran: Well, the risk of sounding like an old timer. I look, there's always new technology and there's always new things coming in. And again, I think that's one of the advantages that chief outsiders CXOs have is being able to leverage the experience and learning of their colleagues to understand and how to bring those things to their clients and use them. AI is a great tool. Most of the clients we have that we're working with, they don't know what to use, how to use it, where to get started, how to bring it into their business. And that's where our experience and expertise can help them. We're also bringing out our own tools that are leveraging AI capabilities to allow us to more or less supercharge our CXOs as they work with clients and share that capability with them directly in ways they either couldn't or at least couldn't as effectively and efficiently do on their own, rather than the way they can in working with chief outsiders.

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So, some of it's helping them learn and discover what works for them. And some of that is embedding AI into the way in which we work with them. So they don't even have to worry about it. It's just their available to support them and they don't have to do their own research and understanding because it's just a tool that they can leverage.

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Jenny Mueller: Yeah, I think we're seeing similar sentiments in our world, just that everybody knows they should be using it to some extent, but the thought of where to begin is somewhat paralyzing. so it's nice having people again. We talked a little bit about this earlier, but like having someone that can come to the table that is up to speed and understand so that these teams don't have to be everything to everyone. And so that's, that's really great.

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Slade Kobran: And think about AI as an example. If you're a mid-market CEO that's manufacturing something or providing a business or a consumer service, do you need the AI that's going to land the people on Mars? Or do you need the AI that's going to help you run your business? So it's really about applications and tools that are going to help you do the things you need to do. Alot of the stuff that's out there a lot of the information is all things that the average CEO is just not going to have to need.

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Jenny Mueller: Yeah, agreed. And I think that some CEOs as you get in dig in, you're probably finding that some have been oversold tools that they don't need or are, you know, like they bought a Ferrari, but they don't know how to drive stick type of deal. And so I see that quite often. But that's why another reason it's nice to have teams like this where you can come in and you already know what you're doing. So great, well I have two more quick questions, fun ones for you. So what's one mantra that served you well in your career, Slade?

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Slade Kobran: My mantra is just try, I would say two things that I try to do is one, try to be a resource for people and try to be a positive force moving forward. And that's all I try to do. mean, you know, let's not kid ourselves. We're all looking for business opportunities, but if I'm able to be a resource and help people move forward and have a positive experience, then that's where the opportunities are coming from.

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Jenny Mueller: I think that that's just how sales is in 2025 and beyond. People don't want to be sold to, they want you to teach them something they don't know and then the sales inherently just come. that's a great mantra. All right, last one. Who's a business leader that you've looked up to or try to model and why? Throwing the hard ones at you to finish up here.

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Slade Kobran: Well, that's a tough one.

I really like, and this is probably not any unique, but I look at Warren Buffett and I look at the way he approaches business and the attitude he has. The guy obviously wants to make money, wants to do good deals and he certainly has a long career. I think he's always looking for, I think his definition of a good deal tends to be more everybody gets value from it, right. And I try to have that type of attitude when I'm working on deals versus because I think the other contrary attitude that many people have is, you know, his approach is it's a good deal if everyone gets good value from it. Others are like, well, it's only a good deal if I win and the other person not only loses, but is left in ruins. And I can't operate that way. I can't be that kind of person. And I don't think I can be that kind of business person. So I, Warren Buffett for that and maybe it's all fake maybe that's just his public persona and he's different in real life but everything I've heard and read about him makes me look up to him then.

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Jenny Mueller: No, I think that he truly is an impressive human being that is proof that you can make money and do good for the world. And I actually know somebody that worked for one of his charities and said he is truly as incredible as people think he is.

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Slade Kobran: I always want to learn something new and I respect, you know, try to follow that as well.

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Jenny Mueller: Indeed. Awesome. Well, I think that's all the time we have today, but thank you so much for taking the time and look forward to finding ways to collaborate moving forward.

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Slade Kobran: Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to chat today. Thank you.

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Jenny Mueller: Transformation isn't about working harder, it's about working smarter. A huge thank you to Slade for helping us better understand how to create value by building a scalable commercial engine. If you found value, share this with a colleague who is passionate about turning transactions into true transformation. Subscribe to never miss a game-changing insight. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible.